‘They were seen as David, now they’re seen as Goliath’: Full Press on whether Israel has lost the media war

Full Press discusses whether Israel has won the ground war in Gaza but lost the media war, asks why journalists didn’t raise more questions about rights restrictions on the Nova Scotia wildfire woods ban, and looks into new leaks from TV host Travis Dhanraj following his grand exit from the CBC.

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Program Transcript

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HARRISON LOWMAN: Welcome to Full Press, a media criticism podcast where listeners and viewers can escape the media echo chambers, the mainstream media echo chambers, for a precious 35 minutes every two weeks. I’m Harrison Lowman, managing editor of the hub. What are we going to chat about today? We’ve got quite the lineup. Israel, Hamas Gaza, there’s winning the war, and then there’s winning the media war. We’ll get into that. An update on the Travis Dhanraj, grand exit from the CBC. More details there, and social media is on fire over coverage of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, I think now wildfire wood bands, as always, I’m joined by my two lovely co-hosts Tara Henley here in Toronto and Peter Menzies over in Calgary. How are you doing today, you two?

TARA HENLEY: I’m great, thanks.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Peter has just returned from the homeland in Scotland, so I assume you’re feeling invigorated, Peter. Are you wearing a kilt? We can’t see below your waist?

PETER MENZIES: No, but I spent four days wearing a kilt, so it’s just getting cleaned up now, stomping about the stomping about the Heather and yes, recalling past glories and visiting places where my great, great, great, great grandfather lived.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Good, good. Okay, so I mentioned, this is a very touchy subject, so we’ll do our best to sort of step through it. Here, a listener had asked us to talk about, you know, owning the narrative as it relates to the war in Gaza. So let’s get into it. Because, yeah, as I mentioned, there’s a war on the ground happening, and it might increase as Netanyahu moves IDF forces into Gaza. But then there’s the war playing out on social media and on media airwaves, both here in North America and in the Middle East, the media is obsessed with this region. I just want to quote Maddie Friedman, who’s an Israeli Canadian who said, when I was a correspondent at the Associated Press, the agency had more than 40 staffers covering Israel and the Palestinian territories. That’s significantly more than new staff that they had in China, Russia, India, or in all of the 50 countries of Sub Saharan Africa combined. This is a place. It’s a small on the map, but it’s a place that the West is obsessed with when it comes to media. I just want to start overall. And I’ll start with Peter, and then move to Tara. Who do you think Peter is winning the media war here in August 2025

PETER MENZIES: Oh, Hamas is definitely winning the media war. It’s been able to get its message through the images it wants to get through the idea that a genocide is taking place in Gaza, which is quite remarkable, and Israel has found itself increasingly friendless in terms of media coverage and it’s a quite amazing to watch how successful an authoritarian government ruled by terrorists can be in gaining credibility with the free press, to those representing a modern liberal democracy.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Tara, what do you think? What’s the headline for you?

TARA HENLEY: I think my overwhelming instinct on this story is just extreme caution for a number of different reasons. One, I mean, just speaking for myself, I don’t cover armed conflicts, I don’t cover geopolitics, I don’t cover the Middle East. I don’t have a background in the Middle East. And in addition, like most journalists in this country, I don’t have any contacts on the ground there. And actually, really, most organisations in this country right now don’t have boots on the ground in this war, as it’s so dangerous and difficult to get people in. And so I think at this stage, like most of us, journalists, have to exercise a lot of humility on this story, the fog of war is a real phenomenon. And in addition to that, in any war, you are also going to have the information war, which is a war of propaganda from both sides. I don’t think it’s possible to really decisively discern what the facts are at this stage. And I think that it’s a very, very difficult story to cover. And on top of that, the stakes are obviously very high, a lot of human suffering going on, and it’s an explosive conflict. And so the stakes of getting the facts wrong, you know, can lead to unrest, can lead to violence in other countries outside of this region as well. So it’s a super, super tricky story, and I think we all have to just know that that we don’t know a lot right now.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Well, you talked about access. Let me give people sort of a peek behind the curtain here. So if you want access from Israel, you have to be embedded. You know, they’re tightly controlled. Netanyahu has said, you know, probably noting the fact that they’re losing this media war, that they want to bring in more foreign journalists because they feel unfairly treated. At the same time, if you want to operate in Gaza, you are going to basically have to tow the Hamas line. Western journalists who are not allowed into Gaza are relying on stringers and journalists on the inside. I think Al Jazeera is the only one that’s not relying on these local stringers, that has more freedom of movement there and then domestically in Israel, following the horrific events of October 7, where, you know, all these civilians were slaughtered, the government, you know, wrapped its hands around domestic media, you know, pushing those out who they feel are pushing out messages that could hurt Israelis. I’m interested, Peter, what you think you mentioned imagery. Obviously, the images that Hamas has at its disposal are very powerful. Rudyard Griffiths, co-founder of the hub, a few days ago, talked about the humanitarian disaster going on there. Hamas is able to deploy pictures of this. They’re very visceral. Shows a lot of suffering. You have military historian Max Boot talking about how Israel’s losing the information war, because it’s the Battle of victimhood. And I’m wondering what you make of that, and the idea of, you know, the expression in journalism that picture is worth 1000 words, and how imagery plays into this media war over there?

PETER MENZIES: Well, a good example is the image of the child reported to be suffering from malnutrition that The New York Times ended up correcting, discovering that that child was, in fact, suffering from another medical condition as well. Prior to the to the picture being taken, I found it an interesting challenge in that while the initial image was shown on the New York Times Twitter that has 50 million followers, the correction was on their corrections account, which has 40,000 followers. Well played, Hamas found the most sickly-looking child they could and got it in front of the cameras, and the world saw that. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t real images, but it does, I think, illustrate the challenge for journalists in trying to verify what is true, particularly when you have a lot of the journalists involved have connections to Hamas, or are under Hamas threat, you know, to their existence. I mean, these are not pleasant people. This is not like you’re battling Justin Trudeau in the emergencies act. These are, you know, genocidal terrorists in charge of a country. And one would expect a higher level of scepticism regarding the information they are providing than is being displayed, I think. And in terms of the human suffering, of course, no one you likes to see that, but at the same time, we have to remember who’s causing it. And the fact of the matter is that Hamas could lay down its arms, return the hostages, and it ends tomorrow night.

HARRISON LOWMAN: One thing I’m struck by in Israel’s inability to sort of tell its story on the narrative is, you talk about pictures. I haven’t seen, like, any pictures of tunnels, tunnel fighting, photos of Hamas. Basically, the narrative in the West is that this entire war is being conducted, you know, 5,000 feet above Gaza, where bombs are being dropped, when, in actuality, there are also forces putting their lives at risk, going into tunnels, taking part in fighting there. So something’s missing there. I think I was doing some research yesterday. Israel does not have an English language spokesperson. It closed down its Ministry of Information. No Head of Public Diplomacy at the Public Diplomacy directed Directorate. Israeli journalist Aviv Redeker says no one in the Israeli state apparatus tracks the claims about the country or the war and responds, handles damage control or man. Edges the narrative and coordinates the message. Tara, can you respond to that? Just in that you know the government needs to tell its story be accessible to journalists if it’s going to challenge certain claims, provide evidence that is then passed along to journalists, like, what do you make of the fact that they, you know, don’t have these megaphones that are then being heard from journalists?

TARA HENLEY: Well, I mean, again, back to what typically happens in war. Of course, there’s going to be confusion and disarray and disorganization and claims that the Israeli government should be held with maximum scepticism as well. As you know, we know we learned from the from the Biden episode, governments lie, and any government is going to lie, and particularly in a time of war when things are so high stakes. And so I do think that maximum scepticism has to be applied all around. And again, back to my original point that some of the facts are just not going to be able to be confirmed and ascertained when there’s so much confusion on the ground. And that I think, I think it just is a time of humility, of knowing that we don’t know certain things, and it’s going to take a while to know things for sure.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Peter, how do we do this, though? Because I know I see you’ve commented on this about online and in your writing, like it seems like Western media goes in sympathetic to the sort of Hamas side, understandably, at the same time, you know, wanting to show the plight, the human suffering, of Gazans who are caught in between the terrorist group you just, you just described, and an army, you know, from Israel that’s trying to win a war like, what do you make of that?

PETER MENZIES: Well, I think there’s been a for a long time, there’s been this alliance between left wing politicians, the left in general, and the Palestinian movement. I’m confused as to what its source is, but it’s been out there for at least 30 years, maybe 35 or 40 in terms of that. And it’s and it’s grown stronger, and the left has a lot of influence inside newsrooms and within the journalism world, the community. So I think that has tilted the scale. I think the information war, the propaganda battle, has been won by Hamas. I think you see more and more Canadian commentators starting to lean towards against Israel, saying, okay, Israel’s gone too far, but nobody seems to really have a solution. Like I said, the bottom line on how this can be ended seems to have been lost in terms of that. So it’s a huge challenge, but you’re also seeing, I’m surprised, that there isn’t more resistance within the journalism community to and sympathy for a liberal democracy over an authoritarian terrorist regime, I find that, like, actually kind of chilling. I mean, of course, you’re supposed to be sceptical from, you know, the word you get from, from both sides, but I’m very surprised not to see a default in favour of the of the liberal democracy and as opposed to the default to take the word of the terrorist organisation. I just find that quite incredible.

TARA HENLEY: I don’t think there should be default on either side. I don’t think there should be any default. I think if, if journalism is about truth seeking and fact finding, that there is no default. It’s, wait and see facts.

PETER MENZIES: Yeah, no, I think, I think that if, if you’re listening to two sources, I think, no, I’m not saying default and favour that side, but I would be, I’m surprised not to see people sort of saying, hey, wait a second, you’re a terrorist organisation. How can I how can I trust you? Versus, hey, wait a second, you’re a liberal democracy. How can I trust you? Typically, you would see, you know, they think right now you’re getting into a longer debate about, you know, two sided, two side ism and that’s and that sort of stuff. So, yes, you want to find the truth in the middle of it, but to find people leaning in favour of the terrorist authoritarians is, I guess, what troubles me.

TARA HENLEY: You can hold both things in your mind at the same time. I think you can hold maximal scepticism for Hamas, but also scepticism for Israel, and an understanding of the dynamics of war and and how tricky that can be.

HARRISON LOWMAN: I think one of the things that happened, I guess it was around the 70s, and historians talk about this, is that the narrative flipped a lot of mainstream media like an underdog. And what happened was Israel was seen as a David in the David and Goliath story. And now it’s seen as a Goliath before it was seen as, you know, this plucky upstart democracy surrounded by enemies, fighting multiple wars and defending itself. And now a lot in the West see it as this, go this military Goliath that is, you know, killing civilians, you know, prioritising the lives of its people over everyone else. Like, I think there’s a narrative issue here. I wanted to get your guys take though on this, one of the issues too, Israelis, the Israeli government would say this is they would allege that Hamas, Hamas fighters, Hamas sympathisers, are donning press vests and pretending to be journalists. The Committee to Protect Journalists has said at least 192 journalists have been killed. That’s on both sides, overwhelmingly on the Gazan side, but Israel would tell you that some of those people have been posing as journalists. We saw famous Al Jazeera correspondent Anas al Sherryf killed in an airstrike recently, hugely celebrated work for Al Jazeera, as I said, who has a lot of access in Gaza at the same time Israel coming out, allegedly, with all this proof that he orchestrated attacks against Israel, CNN and BBC come out and say that they’ve established that before the war in Gaza, Al Sherry worked for a Hamas media team in The strip. I don’t know what that means. They didn’t expand upon it. Peter, how did you sort through all this and this idea that you know there are actual journalists that are doing their job on the ground and deserve to be safe, and how the heck do you protect those people? And then this allegation made from Israel that there are those that are posing as journalists, and taking advantage of that press badge.

PETER MENZIES: Well, first of all, it needs to be noted that I am opposed to the killing of journalists, so let’s make that clear. The second one, I think, is much muddier, because it goes into what is a journalist and how can you be a journalist when you’re living in an authoritarian, terrorist state, it’s sort of like saying, Well, you know, I mean, if this was Germany in 1940 they had journalists too, right? So they when you get that, but can, can they be trusted? So it’s for the news agencies hiring these stringers and journalists from the outside to determine the bona fides of the of the people they’re hiring. It seems to me, from the outside, I don’t know how you could exist in Gazan society without being a friend of Hamas.

HARRISON LOWMAN: So, in your mind, are there no journalists in Gaza right now, like, how do you know?

PETER MENZIES: The fact is, I don’t know. And so every time I read something, I don’t know what to believe. I mean, that’s my biggest problem with the whole Gaza conflict, is I actually have no idea. I have no sense. I have no confidence that I have any idea of what’s going on. I see pictures and allegations of people starving, but then I never really see, you know, those pop up every few months, and then they go away, right? And so I don’t see pictures of people staggering around in the streets. I see some manipulated images or photo ops from time to time. I don’t know, sometimes Israel says, yes, he’s a bad guy. We can prove it. I mean, in the instance you point out that guy clearly had according BBC and CNN and BBC works really, really hard on these verifications. The guy was a Hamas employee. Okay, well, that you could possibly excuse Israel killing him. I guess it sort of gets into question. But what about the other four guys? Right? Like, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s a whole different kettle of fish. So I think, I think what all of us end up doing is suspending our disbelief of these stories because we don’t really know. Like, I want to be able to say I’m opposed to the killing of journalists, but I’m really not certain whether that guy was a real journalist or not, or just a Hamas comms guy operating as a journalist.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Tara, what do you think?

TARA HENLEY: Yeah, I think it’s just so difficult to know what’s going on, and even with the social media videos and the footage and the facts coming out from citizens on the ground. I mean, how do you verify all of that in the midst of armed conflict? I just don’t I don’t know how we can arrive at any shared set of facts right now. And so, how do you arrive at a judgement? I just don’t know.

HARRISON LOWMAN: Okay, let’s leave it there. But we will no doubt be coming back to this as the crisis and war over there continues. Let’s say goodbye to our regular complimentary Hub listeners and viewers for this half of Full Press. For the full audio version, you can sign up to become a hub hero or fellow on the back half of full press. We’ll be talking about the Nova Scotia fire bans, how the media has been covering or not covering that, and we’ll get into the next chapter of Travis Dhanraj’s grand exit from the CBC.